A former UN Assistant Secretary-General spent seven years trying to get world leaders to talk about planetary cooling. Most of them told him the same thing: "We can't talk about this publicly." Janos Pasztor led the Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative (C2G), the first organization to systematically bring solar radiation modification governance to governments, diplomats, and the UN system.
In this conversation, he walks through what those private meetings actually sounded like, why a landmark UN event was killed by COVID days before launch, how a Pakistani minister's first question revealed what actually drives national policy, and why the biggest gap right now isn't research or technology but the societal conversations that still aren't happening.
Chapter Timestamps
[00:00] Opening: “We can’t talk about this publicly” — what Janos heard behind closed doors
[02:21] What was C2G, and what does “governance” actually mean?
[06:59] Breaking down SRM governance into manageable pieces — research, decision-making, and the question of what happens if the answer is no
[11:44] The case against unilateral deployment — counter-geoengineering and the IPCC’s warning
[19:13] “What planet are you coming from?” — how reception shifted from bewilderment to engagement
[23:51] The Belgium UN event that COVID killed, and what it would have meant
[29:19] Why politicians are afraid to go beyond the 1.5°C frame
[35:02] How countries actually develop positions — the multi-layered feedback loops behind government policy
[41:47] “What do Pakistani scientists say?” — the global south, Degrees Initiative, and building local capacity
[47:57] What C2G learned about trust, impartiality, and opening doors
[53:12] The biggest gap right now: societal conversations that aren’t happening
[56:33] What keeps Janos awake — geopolitics, bandwidth, and the timing problem
[1:01:42] If C2G were active today, what would it do differently?
Links and Resources
Carnegie Climate Governance Initiative (C2G): c2g2.net
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